Outdrawn

We're baaaaack!

Let me ask y'all something- what would you do if your BIGGEST rival ended up in the desk right beside you every day... but they happen to be cute as hell and ride a motorcycle?? This week, we're talking about Outdrawn by Deanna Gray, a slow-burn, enemies-to-lovers sapphic romance novel and babyyyy, these ladies had to fight for this thing!

We're talking office romance, family dynamics, the boundaries we set, and how we feel about the enemies to lovers trope! There's a lot of drama happening here and we were living for it!

If you've read this, let us know how you felt about it! And don't forget to review and share! <3 

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hey, hey, hey, book lovers. Welcome to Hot on the Rock, the podcast where representation is crucial and it's always for the black.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

We're your hosts, Alicia Ricia and Tia. Three friends dedicated to honoring the brilliance and the power of black appeal to the authors.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

We got some hot tape, some spoilers, but don't worry, we'll always warn you, and deep combos on culture, identity, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Each week we dive deep into a new book, share our unfiltered thoughts, and celebrate the writers who are reshaping the literary world one story at a time.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

And fair morning, if you're here for a calm, quiet book club, this might not be what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Grab your favorite drink, curl up with us, and let's talk books. The ones that move us, excite us, and keep us flipping pages way past our bedtime.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

So lower your expectations and let's get into the plot. Okay, we're on. Hey y'all. We back. Episode eight. What it do?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Oh my god. Sorry, I'm sorry. I feel like it's that time of the day where it's like you're tired and you're delusional. Yeah. A little bit. So you're just pushing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

We're pushing through guys. So if y'all have it peeped already, yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

We're digging deep. We're digging deep. Did you ever do those workouts, those shanti workouts? Like T25? Yeah. And he could dig deeper. Dig deeper. That that word that phrase is traumatizing to me, honestly. Somebody said I was like, ugh for digging deeper.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

I used to let me a good workout video. Me too. I used to do um, what was that one? Um my mama used to do it, and I would do it with her sometimes. What is it called?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Is it Tybo?

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Tybo, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Listen, they were the workouts on YouTube. I tried it a month ago. Did you like it? I liked it, but this it's not the same. I'm not I'm not the same person who was doing this back in like the 90s and 2000s. I'm like, how did I do this?

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Middle school me was struggling. So yeah, 35-year-old me is like, nah.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Immediately no.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

But I made it through and it was just, and then it was worse because it was the one with like the weights, and they had like two pound, three-pound weights. And at the time I didn't have two pound, three-pound weights. I had five. I was like, this is fine, I can do that. It's okay. No, no, it's a difference. Oh, oh, hold on now. Right. And he's still doing it. He's still he's still kicking, he's still doing his videos, Mr. Billy Blanks. I know that's shout out to Billy. So shit. Lord knows I can't keep up with that man.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Well, y'all, welcome back to Plat on the Rock. Yes. Today we have a very cutesy, very sweet love story called Outdrawn by Deanna Gray. It was very nice. I liked it. It was cute. And this is like surprisingly enough. And let me make sure I'm not lying before I say it, I'm pretty sure. I think this is my first lesbian romance that I've ever read. Um I can't think of any others that I've read. But it was very cute.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

I can't think of any either. Oh, okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Yeah. So let's yeah, go ahead. No, you go ahead. Mm-mm, girl, because I was about to ramble. I feel it.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

I was like, and this one, it was like, of course, essentially they were like lesbian stuff like that, but it was very, I feel like that wasn't the center of the book. That wasn't all that it was about, which I really appreciated. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Well, see them actually build a relationship.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

I'm gonna correct you guys real quick because I feel like was the main point in the story. Sage is bisexual. Okay, and she does talk about feeling erased as a bisexual woman.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yes, we don't want to erase sage. This is true.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Which there was, I will say there was one part where don't laugh at me. Like, I think was it a week ago? It was at the second sex scene. And granted, again, I've never read a sapphic romance. And I texted T and I was just like, please don't laugh at me. But I'm not understanding the position that they're in. Are they? And I was like, are they? I was like, are they sitting? That's what they were supposed to be doing. I was like sitting there, I'm like, wait, because she was like her thigh. I'm like, I I can't I can't ditch this in my head. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

They weren't, audience. They weren't.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

I feel like that when I'm reading some other books where it's just like regular sex scenes, like boy and girl, because I'd be like, no, you said you live with the rings. How do you do that? What do we do? Right, and I kind of want to try it.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Just write it down. You gotta do a little sketchy.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

No, because it's just like, oh, okay, because it's like you have to like you're wanting to enjoy the scene, but then you're also visualizing, you're just like, wait, uh-huh. Like you said, like, what's happening? And I also just I just felt embarrassed as like a 34-year-old person being like, I don't know what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Like, please tell me that is funny.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

That is funny, hilarious. But you know, I really do I like the fact that um well, first, before we get it all into that, we always start talking, we never get we never start with the book. Y'all should know by now, but yeah, anyways, how many clings do we give the book, y'all? Oh, okay. Out of five, I'm gonna say I'm gonna give it a four.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Yeah, I would do this in my little mine suck. I would give it I would give it a four.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Yeah. I'm gonna go four as well. Is this the first time we've all given a book the same rating?

unknown 6:37

I think.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

I want to say maybe the second, the second time because we agreed on one earlier this season.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Was it this season or last season? Because I feel like this season we've been on the struggle bus hard.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

No, I don't know about it.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

It was no, it was no, it was it was um I don't wish you well. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Yeah, yeah. So yes, we this so this is our second agreement. You're all in agreement. I thought it was very cute, and and I really um I liked getting to know both of them as individuals before getting to see how they're interacting with each other. I like that about the book. Because I feel like a lot of romance books, um which again are usually heterosexual, I like they just kind of jump right into the relationship part and kind of rediscover them through the relationship, if that makes sense. Whereas for this one, this they were fleshed out whole people in my mind, yeah, and background stories and all this kind of stuff before they even got to the point where they were admitting that they have feelings for each other.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

I loved that, yeah, agreed, yes, okay, and I like that because like she didn't have to give a lot of explanation, like oh my god, I'm having uh a cider y'all, so I'm gonna be burping. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Where I had a burp attack where it's like you didn't have to have like a whole world-building buildup about who they were. Again, she just kind of jumped right into it. Where because there are moments where it's like, I don't need to know all this information about you. It's okay, it's fine. But it was like just enough for each one. But then you also invested in them. I'm mad for them with certain things, I'm giving them like their kudos when they're setting up for themselves. It was just it was really good.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

I like how it shined a lot, a lot on their craft as well. Like to be essentially black women in this type of creative space where they're they're creating comics. Like, I don't know a lot of black female comic writers. That's so cool to me.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Black female comic writers in Florida.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Yeah, that's that's a lot. I thought that was so cool. Yeah, and I learned a lot about the process, you know, the behind the scenes, I guess. Yeah, as somebody who likes comics, it's like, whoa, okay. I just never thought about the process that goes behind it, like the corporate part and the storyboards and the team and all that kind of stuff. So it was very it was very fun.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Wait, should we tell them what the story is even about? Oh, yes, yes, we're sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Yeah, please please give the people a synopsis.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Yeah, okay. So we have Sage and Noah. I love both of those names, honestly. I feel like they can go for a boy or a girl, and I just feel like they're so cute. So we have Sage, who is essentially like the star of the show because she's super popular, she has been talented since she was really young, and then I went on to college and then at that workspace, and then you have Noah, who's essentially like up and coming, rising, and they're basically kind of sold a dream. Like this big comic book production place is like, okay, well, you're gonna be the leader of this new comic, and it's like, well, actually, you're gonna be the leader, and of course they're rivals, so they're kind of duking it out to see who is going to be able to get the top spot. So we learn about their families, their likes and dislikes, and we kind of see them go from like enemies to friends to lovers, is what I grasp.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

And you know, I I know I'm always talking about how I don't like friends to lovers. I thought you like friends to lovers, but no, I mean not friends to lovers, enemies to lovers.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

I like friends to lovers. I do like friends to lovers, but I don't usually like enemies to lovers. Because, and this is this is a good example because there was one part at the beginning of the story where Sage really disrespected Noah, and I was like, see, this is why I don't do this because I would have beat her up. I would have beat her up in the book. Like, what do you mean? Don't disrespect me, hoe. Right. And then we're supposed to be friends after this, and then you're supposed to try to get in my bed? Absolutely not. I just want, I just want, you know what? Because at first I thought I was gonna say, I I just need y'all to understand how my mind works. At first, I was starting this whole story off to say that I usually don't like enemies to lovers, but I like this one. But now I'm going back to I don't like enemies to lovers. Oh, because why would you do that to me? Why would you do that to me?

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Now I'm mad. It was because part of I think in full enemies to lovers, it was kind of like you know what it reminded me of? Remember Hey Arnold? Yes, yeah, it reminded me of Helga and Arnold, and Sadie Helga needs to be beat up. Yes, she needs to be beat up, but Sadie Lomette. Listen, listen, her daddy was a workout subject, her mama was a drunk.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Her sister was I did not get it.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

I was like, her mama really wasn't that these kids was going through it, and I want to rewatch it with adult eyes because I used to love Hate Arnold, but like a lot of things I didn't really pick up on. Yeah, no, I want to rewatch it.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Yeah, but she she reminded me of Helga, where it's like she really she liked Sage, but she didn't want to like Sage because of her own issues, and that's kind of like Helga, like Helga had her own shit, she had her own issues, clearly. But she but she but Sage loved Noah from afar and had all had a crush on her in college, so she was just being stubborn, she was being a child, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

It it worked out, I'll say that. It worked out clearly, however, I was like, girl, you like this? Okay, I was one of those like uh you like it, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

I've told you before for me, Enemies to Lovers is kind of like it's like Mr. and Mrs. Smith. I like it. Mr. and Miss Smith was a good movie. Granted, if I was in that situation, no, absolutely not. But I like reading about it, I like watching it, but I would never be in that situation.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Yeah, no, I cut people off too fast. I would have never seen Sage again. I would have never spoken.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Dead to me.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Dead to me.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

You can't put your job, you just got your job.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Oh girl, I'm so good at ignoring people. I'm so good at it.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Oh, because you were talking to me.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

She would have just seen the back of my head every day.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

But it did end up well. It ended up, you know, going well, it ended up cute or whatever. She it took me a second, but like I I just yeah, I just thought it was cute and their whole little um the evolution of their being able to communicate with each other, I guess. And I guess that will lead me into the first question, which is how do you think family dynamics show up in romantic relationships and how did it affect Noah and Sage?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Do you mean romantic relationships in general or like in the story?

SPEAKER_02 14:20

I say both because their family dynamics showed up heavily in how they were reacting to each other and how they were communicating. Yeah. Yes. Like as a whole, it definitely is a thing. I mean, I know for me, I'm an oldest daughter. So I kind of immediately related to um Sage. I related to her. I grew up with three little brothers and a daddy who had drug issues, and a mama had to work a lot. So it was like, okay. Oh yeah, no, it was no room for mistakes, was no room for error. I had to come home, I had to do what I had to do, and then I had to live my life also as a teenager. So I got it, and I realized that what that showed up, kind of what happened with Sage in the story. So in the story, if if you guys, I mean y'all know we do spoilers, but just again, spoiler. Sage had one of the big plot points was Sage overcoming her shame around a mental episode that she had where she got extremely depressed, destroyed her own work, fell out with the company, and this is now stopping her from getting her own lead story. And this happened to her because she was so she was overextending herself. She was overextending herself to her family, didn't have enough energy for herself, didn't have enough energy for work, and she just she burnt out. And I've burnt out before. And in you know, in their relationship, I think it was kind of like okay, her first instinct is to overgive and not allow room to be supported, and they had to learn, you know.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

I related to Noah a lot when it came to the criticism. I had love my I was have to preface it, let my love my parents down. Love my parents down.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Let me let me say that as well. New listeners, new listeners, me and my daddy loved each other, me and my mama love each other. It was just, you know, stuff that happened, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

And it was one of those things where it's like, okay, well, I'm giving you these things and I'm giving you these opportunities so you can be better than me. And there is this kind of like perfectionism that I have now because of that, and how that turns into like Noah how like she's overly critical of herself. Any little thing that Sage would say to her immediately spiral to like I'm not good enough. And there have been moments where it's like my husband and I are like we would get into little tips and it would be something so small, and my brain would skew it as like as like an immediate criticism, and then you just beat yourself down, and he's just like, I didn't say any of that, but it twists it in your head, and again, I love my parents, but but parents also aren't perfect when they do things and how that's gonna affect your psyche as a child, especially when like your brain is literally still developing and how that forms when your brain is fully developed. So I think in their relationship dynamic, you see that with Noah's family, like Sage's family like irritated me, but Noah's family, Noah's family. I was ready to fight when they came over to her house for her birthday, and then her sister called this place a piece like a piece of shit. Get out. Yeah, you're not gonna come over here on my birthday and then do that immediately, and that but I loved it when Sage was like, let her finish talking, and I was like, Okay, like I love that, but like, or it's like again, like she has this job that she loves, and they're just waiting for her to mess up because to them an artsy job isn't sustainable. And I know when I like really decided, like, you know, I don't really want to go back to corporate at all, I want to do something that I really like, and it was still just like, well, why don't you apply for this? Why don't you go back to teaching? Why and it's like I don't want to do it. If I wanted to do it, I would have done it. But I'm not stressed out. I go to work, I come home. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

But that's the life.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Yeah, that is like you're enjoying it, yeah. Yeah, and like, well, granted, were they stressed out? They were stressed out too. The girl got carpal tunnel for Christ's sake. But I saw that to say you see those relationship dynamics play out, but again, again, love my parents, but your family are really are your first set of bullies, and they really put into perspective how you feel about yourself, and then you have to do the work to get out of that way of thinking. But Noah and Sage have each other to work that out together. But I also I think wasn't there like one point when Sage was like, you know, there are certain things I have to take care of on my own, like it's not your responsibility, or am I making that up?

SPEAKER_03 19:38

Yeah, I thought you were not a little bit more than that.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

There was one part they said that at some part, but yeah, I'm rambling now because obviously I'm treating this as a damn therapy session. That appointment's next week.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

So for kids, you you you know, I feel like I wholehearted believe that when people say you're not, granted, I'm not married, but like dating. When you're dating somebody, you're not only just dating them, you're dating your family. Essentially, when you get married, you're not just marrying them, you're marrying their family. And the way that people are brought up shapes the way that they do things, like little things. Like some people, you put ketchup in the refrigerator, or just ketchup go in the cabinet. Where do you put your syrup? Who pays for what? Who does it? All of those things that you see from your different family dynamics show up in your relationship, and then you essentially have to figure out what's going to work best for you all. So I feel like their biggest pain points again was that constant pushing, like whatever you may enjoy it, but we don't like it, so you don't need to do it on Noah's end. And then Sage, her constantly having to show up over and over again for people who I feel like didn't necessarily show up for her when she really needed it. And I feel like too, that was like the biggest thing because we got to see all of that. You see why they acted this way versus that way, and I really like that.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah, even in their communication style, too, because Sage's family was very like, we're not gonna talk about it, we're gonna sleep under the rug. So if something was bothering her, she was like, No, whatever. And then I think Noah was the one where it's like, no, we're gonna talk about this like now because her anxiety was so bad that it was like, No, we need to do this like right now, so I can feel better. I don't care if you're uncomfortable right now, but I need to feel better. And you see that how that plays out with how their families are, and I feel like they got better after they told their families off. Perspective.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah, yes. I think I think Deanna did uh Diana. I'm sorry. I I think I'm saying Diana. Um Diana, yeah. Um, I hope that's the right if you're listening. I'm sorry. We tried yes, Miss Gray. Miss Gray, I think Miss Gray did a great job of illustrating those dynamics and how they actually work. Because I feel like a lot of times in romance books, especially, it is a it's a lot of focus on just the two, which I mean that's fine and everything, but we don't get to understand why it is that they're being drawn to each other, where the friction is coming from, if there is any. Sometimes it's just very like too zoomed in, I guess. I mean because I mean in real life, it is like this. In real life, you're gonna be attracted to somebody who is probably going to be there to um maybe call attention to some things you might need to work on, um, who will, you know, help you because that's how you heal, right? You gotta actually like work through it. You don't heal in a vacuum, you heal through basically being triggered and learning how to handle the triggers. So me yesterday is just oh lord. I mean, that's how it be.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

I miss whatever is happening right now.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

No, you missed what happened yesterday. Girl, I was I was a trigger, a tis and trigger, and I was like, wait, no, I'm working on listen therapy. Oh, yeah, you did do good. You did do good. I was like, we're saying I'm remembering.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

I was trying to wait for you to tell me what you were talking about.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Cause you was like, what happened yesterday? All of her memories are so bad.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

All of her memories are so bad, we would be amazing at committing crimes. We never forget everything. What am I called because was telling me? Yeah, she was just like, yeah, when I told when I told you guys yesterday, I'm just like, When what did you tell us yesterday? Like, I don't know what's going on. And I was like, Oh, okay. That's like if I had to like calm myself down, I was like, Yeah, you heal through your triggers. And I was triggered and I I did it. I healed myself.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

I mean it really be like that. I I realized really early on. I realized really early on that me and my husband was there, like we were supposed to be together. Like there was no doubt about it that. But like the way that we literally over the years, our growth has been through figuring out, like you said earlier, Rakia, what we're both bringing from our individual families and finding out what we're actually gonna keep for ours. That's been the biggest thing. And yeah, you gotta put them boundaries up with your original family to get to that point, you know. So I thought that was beautifully illustrated. And I I just I really liked the way that this book approached their relationship. Like, I just don't think I've read a book that did it that well. I really don't. And it was still lighthearted, like it was still um a like you know what I'm saying? Like it was still an easy read. It didn't give you anxiety about it. I didn't feel I don't know, you know, you read some romance books and you're just like, oh my god, what is gonna happen? Like, what's next? I didn't feel that it felt like a very nice, peaceful journey. It's like a rom-com.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

It's like a snapshot of yeah, yeah, a traditional rom-com, yes. And you said something a second ago, Tia, where you said that they were drawn to each other. I feel like her drawn had two different meanings, like drawn, and then they were drawn to each other. I was like, um, I like the play on words, yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

And then honestly, too, like you're so cute. But I love too, but especially the description of the two. I love that Noah was a bubbly black girl who had her pastels, who had her pink, who was like girly and bubbly, and like nobody because I think you sent me a video a while back where it's like bubbly black girls like intimidate people for some reason, or not intimidate people, it's like they're not taken seriously because they're so bubbly.

SPEAKER_03 26:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

And I think there are moments where it's like her family underestimated her because of it, but her peers didn't, which I loved about that.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Yeah, so they knew her, you know, her potential immediately. Yeah, and it is true, like I as a as a bubbly black girl, somebody who used to get you're always happy all the time. Like I used to get that all the time. Why are you so you're always so smiley in in an aggravated way? I I've learned to appreciate that because what usually happens is because I am always bubbly and I know how to manage my emotions and kind of keep it like I'ma keep it light. I don't care, you're not gonna really get me out of my square. But people will take see that and assume you are one way, and so they'll be whoever they are. And maybe certain personalities might try to take advantage or try to be a certain way, but then they don't realize just because I'm sweet, don't mean I won't cuss you out. And it just like it brings like, yes, I love it. Please show me that you want that you're that type of person because I can tell you what it is and get you out of my life real, real fast.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Exactly. It's what she did with her sister. Yeah, it's what she did with her sister. Which I want to push you down the stairs. I would have pushed her slower. Like she bit she irritated me, like she always had a bad attitude. You're complaining that it's homes. And we're outside, and like blah blah blah, and like shut up. Ugh.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Yeah, but we don't equal, I'ma take your bullshit. Right, you're not gonna talk to me any kind of way just because I'm a happy person. I'm a happy person because I make sure I don't deal with bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Yes, at all.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

What's the next question? The next question. How would you guys feel about working so closely with your significant other?

SPEAKER_00 28:19

No, answer that very quickly. No immediately, no, immediately no, no, if we if we were in like a large company with like 500 to a thousand employees and we were in two completely different departments, maybe, and I never I gotta see you for nine hours out of the day and then go home.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Like, no, it was annoying when we were both working from home in two separate rooms, we were still in the same house, but like no, literally, I don't think I would like because even if like I still feel like in my head, separate buildings, you're still if you're on the same schedule, I still feel like it's oh we can have lunch, granted, sometimes that'd be nice, but we can carpal. Actually, no, I want to listen to trap music on the way. You might want to listen to your little motivational music on the way. I don't want to do that on the way to work, okay? And you might want to no, no, just no, no, space time together.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Yes, yes, yes, space is important. I don't, I couldn't do it. Oh my god, especially not that close, like they was working. Oh, hell no.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

No, I think turn it. Jeremy don't mind.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

We can't we don't even cook together. We don't cook together. I don't drive. He driving it. I just because I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it like you know, he we just work too too differently.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

I absolutely oh you're better than me because I I'm a backseat driver, it drives Jeremy insane. Because he makes me nervous, he makes me nervous when he drives.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

That's why I just don't drive.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

He drives everywhere, but you don't get nervous. He takes too long to break, he's speeding up at certain moments, and it's like I I can't do this. Like I'm not pushing on the imaginary. Do you not see this person? I don't know where you're going, you're going the wrong way. And no, he's like, No, girl, that don't piss me down a lot.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

I can't.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

I know I do piss me at the time.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Oh, Terrence is so bad with it. He's so bad with it. Like, I mean, literally, the mo we don't mean Terrence don't argue a lot. No, we don't really argue a lot. We usually um can we know talk in you know, a little disagreement. All right, maybe a little, okay, you're getting on my nerves a little, you know, every now and then, but we don't really argue like that. But like driving, if I'm driving somewhere, oh no. No, I'm about to cuss him out. Cause like, why are you am I you ain't never seen me get a rain? Shut up. Shut the fuck out. I'm trying to think of the solution is I do not drive. He drives.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

I'm trying to think if there's ever been a time. Yeah, but I I don't know if I've ever really if we're both going somewhere together. I'm trying to think like if I've ever driven him anywhere, like where he's been in the passenger seat, or if it's just he always let me tell Jeremy to let you drive. I have because you know I'm a control freak. I gotta, I gotta, you know, like and he it drives him nuts whenever I tell him he's taking 12 break, or like if he's taking me to work, why did you go this way? You have to go this way around this roundabout. Mind you, it's gonna take us to the same destination. I know it's gonna take us to the same destination. But GPS said to go this way.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

You mustn't. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Let me give him a head. Let me let me do my job. It doesn't even matter. My dog was like, let me give us my head, please. Come on. And then he messes with me when I when I get home, he like he like fusses at me, or like he'll he'll try to be like you know, cutesy and like sexy at like the worst times, and it's like, what makes you think it's this time that I'm okay with this? So it balances itself out, yeah. So yeah, we don't cook together either, too, because I get out of my space. No, no, that is funny.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

That is no, I mean Terrence worked together one time, a long, long time ago, but we were on two different teams, so like, and this is also when we first started dating, so we was like in that honeymoon thing. Yeah, so meeting for lunch and stuff. That would never fly today, much as I love him. Would never go.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

No, wouldn't do it. Yeah, no, I've even thought about like having you kind of work together. You kind of work together now because he does our stuff for our podcast.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Yeah, but you know what I do? I text him the the numbers, uh, delete this, that, that, that. Now you text me, he's right back. I leave him alone. Yes, yes, I text him and then I leave him to it. Okay, okay. I leave him to it, okay? Okay, that means he's a perfectionist. I can't he's a perfectionist. And he won't if if I didn't, he would be like, Tia, come here. Every five seconds. Listen, it this will jump out. No, no, nigga. Dope, but let me just text Tia, I'm gonna text you everything. Here you go. This is what you need. You need anything else? All right.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

No, oh my god. Yeah, there's even been times where I've started like advice for like for this, and then I don't take it. And then he's like, Well, why'd you ask me then? You're asking me all, and it's like, well, I it didn't work, I don't know, I just didn't take it at the time. So if I if I'm already doing that, and are there things I think he can help with, yeah, but like also no well, I can I think this is a good next question.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

In their working together, do you guys think that Noel was competing with Sage or was she competing with the version of Sage that she had created over the years?

SPEAKER_00 34:23

I think who she created because I hadn't spoken for a long time, so that you evolve, you change, so she doesn't know who Sage is now. She knows who she used to be. And that's who he was trying, she was trying to beat this whole time.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

I agree, yeah. And I feel like too, even when they were in school, because you know people are like, oh, I know her. I know of her. I have no clue what that lady got going on or that man got going on in their life. I know of them or I knew them. I have no clue. That's a 10, 15 years. Please, I was going to the calf eating chicken on Wednesday and dancing on the booth. Like, ah I mean, I still might do some of that now, but I mean, you know, it's it's it's a change in life. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Yeah, I agree, I agree, and I think I think they were both kind of competing because although Sage was going into this as oh my gosh, I mean, Noah was going into this opportunity as like, oh my gosh, Sage is here. I'm gonna have to be on my you know, P's and Q's, I'm gonna have to be perfect. I can't I can't mess up at all, I have to be perfect kind of thing. She didn't even realize that she was pressure to Sage. Like she had her own paid, you know, pressure about her. And she didn't even realize that she was so focused on her anxiety about her. And I think that was such a good lesson, honestly, because I think I think we all have like one person who we're like, oh my gosh, like wow, I wish I could do that, or I wish I could maybe be on that level here, or you know, and maybe not even and not even on a competition type level, just as a I don't know, like out of admiration type, yeah. But you just never know what that other person is going through. You just really can't compare. You can't, because you just don't you don't know what people are going through, you don't know what they're dealing with, you don't know what they're thinking, what they've actually done to get to their position.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

You don't know. Cause even like with Sage, there were parts where she was competing with Noah, but then eventually she just kind of was just like, whatever. And then when the other guy on the writing competition, I forgot his name, um, when he came in, beginning with a K or something like that, she was more worried about like this guy getting into their top spot. So eventually, it really wasn't no was there like an issue after that. Because I think also because Sage had her burnout um episode, she never really fully recovered from it. I think she was still burnt out and still just kind of coasting because it's all she can give at the time. I think she saw like a hunger and noah that she used to have, so she was like, Let me give you these tips to keep up with me. But you're you're still really good. Like you're you're better than you think you are. And I think eventually she was almost like passing the baton to her, consciously or subconsciously. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Because once they stopped beeping, like they were really able to, like, okay, you're really good at this, I'm really good at this. Take what's good for you, what's good for me, we can put it together.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

And I thought that was um, I thought that was super sweet because they were, you know, I mean, working side by side. That's crazy in and of itself. But then like they're both dealing with their family stuff, they both want to win this competition, they both want to, you know, get their their you know, own comics on at the company, and um the part where they actually offer to Noah, um, you know, her first inclination is fear. She's like, oh no, like I hope Sage doesn't hate me for this. I hope, you know, this doesn't ruin our you know relationship, etc. etc. And Sage is like, no, like I'm happy that this happened for you. Like, do I wish it was me? Maybe a little bit, but also I love you and you deserve it. So it's like they there was a support there that she still, even though she knew, I guess she wasn't all the way sure about it until that moment.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Yeah, and even like what the hell was I gonna say? That thought just went out of here. That was just like I was so focused on the bird. Yeah, was it something so insightful? I don't even know. Girl, I was talking about Sage. Sage was doing, I don't know. Oh when Sage When Sage finds out right afterwards that she didn't get it, I think that was another realization too, where it's like one. I don't think she should have been so hard on herself because like, yeah, she shot herself in the foot, but you had a mental breakdown. And is it fair that the company doesn't want to invest in you now because of it? No, it's not fair, and it's also like at the end of the day, it's a corporation, they don't care about anything that you're going. Nobody you messed up my money, you deleted all of this stuff. Absolutely not, and it's kind of one again, it's one of those situations where like her her boss and her friend is like, I think you should pack there's nowhere else for you to go here, you need to go somewhere else. And I wonder like if she was even staying at that job too, out of like financial stability because she was the one that was still putting money in that saving account with her family, which I'm again, I'm petty. I wouldn't do, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that. She did stop. She did stop, she did stop it then. She did stop. Well, I got to the part where it's like she told she went to her brother and telling him that that she was gonna stop and he's like in the hospital and he's an asshole about it. It's like you would you you're waiting to tell me this now while I'm in the hospital. Well, there's never a good time to t to tell you about giving you any money anymore. Right. Yeah, but so don't treat me like the dickhead because I'm telling you put yourself in this situation, yeah. First of all. So I got to that part, but it's like I'm glad that she eventually like stopped. But it was again, it was one of those things where it's like, damn, like I did all this stuff for you for years, for decades. And now that I'm just like, you know what? Yeah, um because I feel like I'm kicking you when you're down, but I gotta take care of myself. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, maybe she was staying at that job because she knew that stability for her family. But now that she was like, you know what, no, I'm gonna do me, it's fine. I think maybe she was just like, Yeah, okay. I'm out.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

I can move on, and you know, I was proud of her for that.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Yeah. I was very proud of her for that. Because it it does get to a point again, the oldest daughter syndrome is very hard to break. And I I have I realized that even in my friendships, um, especially when I was younger, I would always find myself in the position to be mothering my friends or being the responsible one of the group or taking care of everybody, but didn't really know how to let other people take care of me. And that's so hard to break. And it really does become like your identity. So for her to get to that point where she's able to see her brother in active distress and still be able to go in there and say, Listen, I actually can't do this anymore. Big growth, big growth. Big growth. Because that does not come naturally after that many years of being the caretaker.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

And there's there's a quote I saw where it's like for I don't know if it was like for narcissists or someone like that, but for people that like kind of take advantage of you, boundaries look like selfishness to them because they just they've had access to you for so long, and now you're fine, like, no, it's like no, then it seemed like it seems like a selfish act to them. And it's like no, it's kind of the way of the world. It's like a freaking mother bird kicking her baby out of the nest. You're either gonna flap your wings or you're gonna go splat. Yeah, yeah. They're not worried about it.

unknown 43:13

Oh well.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Because the bird is fine, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Yeah, and they are, they're gonna be alright, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

So oh well. Gotta give people the opportunity to do without you, which is basically what she said. You know, they never had a reason to get it together because she was there to save them.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

That includes her mother. That was another thing, too. When she's at home and she goes to see her mom, and her mom's doing all this stuff, and you have the men sitting in the living room just watching TV. I don't care. I don't care if you're saying, Oh, mom likes to do all this stuff on her. No, what are you doing? Get your ass. Ain't no way.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

I'm gonna flip everything over.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

What are y'all doing? Everything. Yeah. Oh my god. The mommy. Yeah, that scene pissed me off. But oh my god. That scene pissed me off because I'm trying to I'm struggling to understand. Like Florida now, Florida is very different than North Carolina. I will I will attest to however it is the South. And one thing, you know, we don't play that sitting around letting women do the heavy stuff. Never in my life. Now, one thing my daddy ain't played that. My daddy and I played that. My brothers did everything. As a matter of fact, before me and Terrence got married, my brothers was coming to fill up my tank. They was coming to clean my car. They was doing, you know what I'm saying? Like certain things. As a man, like that's so weird to me. That's nasty.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Disgusting. There are, and here's the thing that that was something that took me a while to get used to, too, because Jeremy mainly fills up the gas in the car. So go get the car washed. There are certain things that I don't know the cost of because he takes care of it. But growing up again, growing up from New York back home, where everybody's grinding, both men and women, the hyper-independent person in me for the longest time was just like, no, I don't like not knowing things. Because what do you mean? Ask me how much gas is. I don't know. I don't know how much car thing is. But even now, like I'll talk about that. He's like, oh, did Jeremy take your car for a wash? I was like, Yeah, he's gonna do it. Or he'll wash it himself. And then Florida, we'll talk about Florida in our next episode. Because you already know how I feel about that place.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Um yeah, it was was whose family dynamic frustrated you more, Sage or Noah.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Noah, just because it was triggering for me. Very triggering for me, made my eye twitch.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

It's like sage for me. I don't like lazy people. And if it's something you can essentially do and you choose not to, same.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Same. It irked me on a real bad level. Like, oh, it was it was it was terrible. Like, what do you mean I'm the only daughter? And y'all niggas ain't trying to help me with these financials for your parents, and you can't even get up and help your mama with a box. Nigga, everybody getting cussed out. Everybody getting cussed out. Like, what are you doing? What's happening?

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

Yeah. No way. Yeah. Like Sage, it's I feel like Sage, I mean, Noah's family. I keep getting the mixed up. Noah's family was annoying, but I feel like, oh, and again, this because that's not the dynamic I'm used to. I would have been like, girl, what get the fuck out of my house if all you're gonna do is talk shit now.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

And then that would just be solved. But like on Sage's, that's like that's a whole dynamic. That's a whole like, y'all need therapy. We need we need to uh I don't know what we need to do. Y'all gotta get out. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

Like a lot of leave the home, like it was a lot, but I will say, like, from somebody who grew up like Noah, like going to private school and having like families that had uh expectations of you. I think with her dynamic, it was all of these voices coming at her at once. That it's like her voice is like it gets smaller. And that makes sense. Even now, like at this age, I'm still very much working on it. Like, I get very triggered if I feel like I'm not being heard or listened to. Like the the dumbest thing to somebody else, where it's like, okay, with my PCOS, I have inflammatory PCOS, so gluten and dairy irritate my stomach. With my dad, you've had gluten and dairy all your life. Now all of a sudden it's it's not real. So but I'm telling you that something I'm feeling is bothering, but you're not hearing me. So it's like if it takes you back to feeling like a kid. So there were moments where she was where her family was doing that, where I could feel her getting smaller because it's like there's no point of arguing back because you're not gonna hear me, you're not gonna listen to me, you're not gonna hear what I'm saying. Yeah, and on top of that, yes, and then with her too, I think you had reposted something on on TikTok to you, or it was like or Facebook something where it was like, which we all know, like jobs are modern-day slavery. Yes, we know that, but jobs are also a way your job title is the initial introduction of how someone is gonna choose how they're gonna respect you. So you saw how her mom talked about her little artsy job. You just get to draw all day, you don't have a hard time doing anything, and it's like, okay, like I'm not out here doing a heart surgery, but what I'm doing is still work, but you're not taking it seriously because it's not important to you. Yes, and on top of that, she felt like you know, I think the moments were like, I just felt like you're still making good money. Like, and to me, people all over the world know who I am mom, dad, sister, what people want my autograph, people want my autograph. Yes, I'm famous, inspiring the children. Literally, like, what what what are they scientists or like a botanist or like some shit? Like, okay, go with your plants. Literally, I'd be like, I'm famous. That's all she had to say. Google me now, right? Literally, Google me, please, please, but yeah, Noah's family was just like ugh, and then say, and now I was opposite with sages, I would fight every single one of them. Not the mom, not the mom. The mom is fine, the mom was okay. But the brothers, the minute Ash took that money out of the out of the savings account, you're not answering my phone. I'm taking PTO from work, and I'm finding you. Please. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I agree. It was a good book. It was a really good book. It was cute. I um I think I'm gonna read some more about her. Yeah, because that was different. That was different, and I liked it.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

It was because I feel like a lot of the romance mix we read too are like they have more. I don't want to say this didn't have substance because it did have substance, substance. They have heavy substance to it. Yeah, whereas like you said, like this this was very hard to be. Yeah, like it was so cute. Hold on, let me see.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

This will make a cute movie. I agree, like this will make a cute little YA movie.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

I don't girl, this is not a YA book. What are you talking about? I know, I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

No, I I agree with what, but I mean like movie-wise. Okay, like movie-wise, this would be cute. Like a I don't know, I'm trying to think of a movie to compare it to.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

I'm gonna pause. I'm I'm looking up, I'm looking up for other her other stories, Tia.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

I'm trying to think. But I feel like she has one. If DeGrassi can be a kid's show, I feel like Al drawn can be a kid's show.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

I gotta put but Degrassi didn't show full-on hunching, though. I mean, they're not gonna be like, no, they definitely implied it. I mean, they're pretty good. JT had a whole baby. Yeah, but they didn't show the knocking boots. So also speaking of hunching, this is this is just maybe for me. There was a lot of talking in their sex scene. Their first sex scene, they were doing too much talking. I'm trying to I'm literally reading, I'm like, do I talk too much? They're having falling conversations. I was like, yeah, this is not sexy right now. They're talking about some talking, but I'm trying to have full dialogue with me. No, and then there was one thing where she was talking about her like her areolas. I don't like my areolas, they're weird, like, this is this is not what is this? Is it sexy dog?

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Yeah, they was having wrap-up talk during the settings. Like we probably have these kind of conversations afterwards, like hello talking. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

Maybe that's why I was confused by the moves too, because it was a whole bunch of dialogue, and then they were just also doing stuff. I was like, wait, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

I was gonna say I don't think the first one better than the second one for that reason.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Wasn't the first wasn't the first one where she was talking about like how her like nipples were weird looking?

SPEAKER_02 52:47

Maybe it was the second one then, because one of them didn't have as much dialogue.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

I think it was the first one that had a lot because that was when they were first having sex and they were like hee hee hee, giggling and getting oil and toys and stuff. Maybe it must have been the second one then. Yeah, because the second one was when that was when Noah's family came over the next day.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

That was another thing, too. You're gonna talk shit about me. You have a I have a guest in the house, you have no decorum. Did you talk about me with this lady right here? But I was gonna say, I don't know if you're if you're gonna like her other books, because she has one other because I feel like we all have issues with this. She has one other sapphic romance where both the main characters are black, but her heterosexual romances, only the female main character is black. I'm looking at the covers.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

Yeah, I don't know. Which is always heterosexual romances anyway.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

Oh, you're done. To be honest, you're just going full on. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

To be honest, I got enough of those on my list.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

This this is true. But I do think I do just think it is odd where like I don't know. Oh, it's also a sports romance. That always gets me, like now. Never mind.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Oh, I in this the one of the ones you're talking about, people were eating this up. This sunny romance. Which one? Sunny, what is this disposition? Oh sunny disposition. Every I when this first came out, I feel like a lot of people were talking about this in like a good life.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

And my thing is, why are all of the sports romances that are out hockey? Like they're all hockey. And I don't understand, like, why? Because my thing is okay, there's two shows like it. We have the heated rivalry and the off-campus show. Hockey there makes sense because the writers are Canadian, and that's like their main sport over there is hockey. So, what else are they gonna write about? But I feel like every other sports romance I see is all hockey.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

It's very little like football, basketball, even soccer, baseball.

SPEAKER_02 55:03

Give me a football romance. I might be into it.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

I might be into it. I know nothing about sports, basketball meant, you know.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. But football, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Um, what's there was one there was one football romance I was gonna read, and it wasn't where it was like the the it was a black female main character and then like a white male main character, and the only reason why I didn't read it is because and I know this is like controversial, I think somebody talked about this on Black Girls Read 2, is that the author was a white woman, and I I do uh I know not everybody cares, but I can literally insert insert no if we get that audio, Beyonce's gonna get us for royalties right there. No, for real. But like, so that's like that's the only reason why I didn't, and the concept was good, but I was just like that's weird to me. I know, yeah, I know. But maybe I'll maybe I might give this I like I like a grumpy sunshine romance. I do like when the guy is grumpy. So maybe maybe I'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 56:16

But yeah, I was just looking for that one to your football, all in by Z Renee. That's an urban romance, but it's around football. All in. Baby, it's gonna take you through some changes, but it was good. It was really good. Z Money? Uh-uh, Z Renee Renee.

SPEAKER_02 56:35

I think I've really.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Ooh, there is there was one by J.S. Jasper. There's one by J.S. Jasper called Spring Awakening. That's I think it's I think it's football in the British sense, like soccer, but both of the characters are black. Both of the characters are black. So this is cute. She has purple hair, right?

unknown 56:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:00

Is it soccer? It's not so. Oh, it says rugby. Yeah, if it's British, oh rugby. Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

I love I love watching rugby. I love watching a rugby training session. Let me save this one. I might save that one. We got some options.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

We got some options.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Ooh, it's called training seasons.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

We can have options too. We got some new books we're about to start reading too, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Yes, yes. Should we talk about the next next episode? The next episode. The next two episodes, actually, they're they're gonna be a little bit heavy. Really heavy. We're gonna be reading The Reformatory by Miss Tenanereve Dew. I love that name. My fave. Tananareve do. I'm so uh I love her so much. I I already uh I already finished.

SPEAKER_02 58:04

Miss Dew, if you're listening, I follow you on threads, girly. I like you as a personality if you think we should be friends.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

Not as a personality, just a person.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

I mean, you know what I'm trying to say, girl. You know what I mean. We friends, you get it.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

I know. I love her, I love everything like this. I finished this in a week. Like, if I didn't have work, I probably would have finished this sooner. But we're gonna be reading the reformatory. If you haven't read it, get your tissues ready. Like, ugly crying s not coming on your nose. For me, that was that was me. Like, what's that Fantasia meme where she's like walking on the stage and she's crying and like shaking her head? That was literally me at one point. Like, I was just like, and I was telling Rick, Jeremy was like, Are you okay? Is everything good? I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, no, but yes, it's just it's just the book. It's the book, the book app. It's just the book. But for the synopsis for next week, uh the reformatory is a story about a boy in 1950s, Florida, um, a black child in 1950s, Florida, so I feel like you guys know where this is gonna go. Um, he ends up kicking the son of the man that pretty much owns the whole entire town, and he gets sent to a reform school, uh, and he can see haints and ghosts, and he gets haunted by different ghosts in the reformatory. And yeah, I don't want to spoil too much because we're gonna spoil it for you next time.

SPEAKER_03 59:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

But thank you guys so much for listening. And again, this one's gonna be a heavy one. There's probably not gonna be a lot of laughing. I don't think we're gonna try. I'm gonna try real hard.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

A little joy, a little joy.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

That's the funny about this book. Um honestly, I'll probably cry during that episode. Oh chat.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:09

It it definitely felt like that when I started it, but it'll be you know, read it with us if you haven't already read it. Um and make sure you follow us on our socials Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, all that, Instagram, threads, we we everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Yeah, talk to us on there. I'm gonna try and get better at responding to people because I'm not good at that. Yeah, we worked. Listen, the way I see it, like, if we get a lot of comments on something, I get overwhelmed and I'm just like, ah, I don't want to do it anymore. Like, it's too much. We need a social media manager who wants to be our social media manager for free. Like, we can pay you. Oh my god. All right, well, thank you guys for listening, and we will see you guys. Or no, we're not. You will see us, you will hear us next time. Bye bye.